Modi's Interview by Swarajya Magazine
Modi had given an exhaustive interview
to Swarajya almost covering all topics that were published by them in Two
Parts.
The two parts
are given herein.
Modi had almost
touched all subjects pertaining to his tenure during the course of his
interview and he had taken pains to explain in detail the reasons for taking
certain hard steps in order to bring the bad economy into shape.
Apart from
Economy, Modi had also explained his stands on politics.
Swarajya had
posed many questions to Modi which Modi had answered in detail.
Even if you are
not in favour of Modi’s actions, please do take time to go through the two
interviews leisurely and I am quite sure that you will really appreciate
his simplicity and sincerity.
Modi should win
in 2019 lok sabha election with majority seats for BJP securing atleast 300+
apart from its NDA.
S. Sankaran
#ModiWin2019
Part 1:
- Jul 02, 2018, 4:13 pm
·
Prime Minister Narendra Modi gave Swarajya an
exclusive interview, covering a wide range of subjects including Chidambaram’s
budget jugglery, job creation, farm sector initiatives, privatisation push, GST
strides and his idea of minimum government, maximum governance.
In a free-and-frank interview to Swarajya on 30 June, Prime
Minister Narendra Modi talked about the challenges faced by the National
Democratic Alliance (NDA) government when it took over from the United
Progressive Alliance (UPA) in 2014, its approach to economic reforms,
especially the privatisation of public sector units (PSUs), the efforts to put
Indian banking back on the rails, the political challenges from a
Mahagathbandhan against the NDA in 2019, the NDA’s own allies problem, the Kashmir
crisis, the alleged concentration of power in the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO)
and the Bharatiya Janata Party’s (BJP) talent deficit, and many other topics.
In the interview, Modi makes the following points:
One, the economy was in much worse shape than he had imagined,
and some of the budget’s numbers were “suspicious”. Put simply, he implied that
the budget numbers left behind by former finance minister P Chidambaram were
not a correct statement of the finances of the government. But Modi decided that
he would not play politics with these numbers, since the country could not
afford to “multiply the distress”.
Two, on the lack of jobs, he said that “more than a lack of
jobs, the issue is a lack of data on jobs”. This is what needs fixing first.
Moreover, with data from the Employees Provident Fund Organisation (EPFO)
showing a rise in formal sector jobs, informal sector jobs too would have
risen, as would jobs created by Mudra loans. He added: “our traditional matrix
of measuring jobs is simply not good enough to measure new jobs in the new
economy of New India.”
Three, the farm distress issue, and the promise of doubling
farmers’ income are being addressed in a four-fold strategy, which involve
cutting inputs costs, raising prices of produce, ensuring minimum harvest and
post-harvest losses, and creating more avenues for income generation. “If you
focus closely on our policy interventions, they are aimed at helping farmers at
every step – beej se bazaar tak,” he told Swarajya.
The following is the first segment of the full text of the
interview given to Swarajya’s Editorial Director R Jagannathan, CEO Prasanna Viswanathan
and Publisher Amar Govindarajan. A part of the interview, relating to Modi’s
views on the goods and services tax (GST), was published on 1 July as it
coincided with the first anniversary of the biggest tax reform in Indian
history.
Why Modi Didn’t Call Out Chidambaram’s Budget
Jugglery In 2014
Swarajya: In 2014, we thought
that the Modi government would bring out a White Paper on the state of the
Indian economy. However, nothing of that sort happened. Why didn’t you do it?
Narendra Modi: You are absolutely
correct when you say that it was the opinion of various experts and political
pundits that a White Paper should be published on the economic situation in the
country.
In 2014, one of the key agendas of the BJP’s election campaign
was highlighting the dismal management of the Indian economy, ironically under
an ‘economist’ prime minister and a ‘know-it-all’ finance minister.
We all knew that the economy was in the doldrums but since we
were not in government, we naturally did not have the complete details of the
state of the economy. But, what we saw when we formed the government left us
shocked!
The state of the economy was much worse than expected. Things
were terrible. Even the budget figures were suspicious.
Swarajya: Why didn’t you highlight
these suspicious bits?
Modi: When all of this came to light, we had two
options – to be driven by Rajneeti (political considerations) or be guided by Rashtraneeti (putting the
interests of India First).
As you would remember, I had clearly said during the campaign ‘Saugandha Mujhe Is Mitti
Ki, Main Desh Nahi Jhookne Dunga’. Our government has lived this promise.
Rajneeti, or playing politics on the state of the economy in 2014, would
have been extremely simple as well as politically advantageous for us. We had
just won a historic election, so obviously the frenzy was at a different level.
The Congress Party and their allies were in big trouble. Even for the media, it
would have made news for months on end.
On the other hand, there was Rashtraneeti, where more than
politics and one-upmanship, reform was needed.
Needless to say, we preferred to think of ‘India First’ instead
of putting politics first. We did not want to push the issues under the carpet,
but we were more interested in addressing the issue. We focused on reforming,
strengthening and transforming the Indian economy.
Swarajya: Would disclosure have made
things worse?
Modi: The details about the decay in the Indian
economy were unbelievable. It had the potential to cause a crisis all over.
In 2014, industry was leaving India. India was in the Fragile
Five. Experts believed that the ‘I’ in BRICS would collapse. Public sentiment
was that of disappointment and pessimism.
Now, in the midst of this, imagine a White Paper coming out
giving intricate details of the extent of damage. Instead of being a mollifier,
it would be a multiplier of the distress.
There were several landmines laid in various sectors. We
accepted this uncomfortable truth and hit the ground running from the very
first day to stabilise things so that the Indian economy can be strengthened
for the long haul.
We tolerated a number of political allegations, we accepted
political damage but ensured no damage to our country.
The positive results of our approach are for everyone to see.
Today, India is the fastest growing large economy of the world with strong
fundamentals to propel further growth. Foreign investment is at an all-time high,
GST has revolutionised the tax regime, India is an easier place to do business
than ever before and, most importantly, we are seeing unprecedented levels of
trust and optimism.
If States Are Creating Lakhs Of Jobs, Can Centre
Be Creating Joblessness?
Swarajya: We will discuss some
of these issues. But the challenge No 1 is jobs. Where are the jobs? The
opposition is finding traction in asking this question…
Modi: On this issue, more than a lack of jobs,
the issue is a lack of data on jobs. Our opponents will naturally exploit this
opportunity to paint a picture of their choice and blame us. I don’t blame our
opponents for blaming us on the issue of jobs, after all no one has an accurate
data on jobs. Our traditional matrix of measuring jobs is simply not good
enough to measure new jobs in the new economy of New India.
Swarajya: So, how do we measure jobs?
Where do we go from here?
Modi: When we look at the trends in
employment in our country, we need to keep in mind that today, the interests
and aspirations of our youth are diverse. For example, there are close to 3
lakh village-level entrepreneurs who are running Common Service Centres across
the country and also creating more employment. Start-ups are working as job
multipliers and there are around 15,000 start-ups, which the government has
helped in some way and there will be many more operational. Aggregators of
various kinds employ thousands of youth.
If we look at numbers for employment, more than 41 lakh formal
jobs were created from September 2017 to April 2018 based on EPFO payroll data.
According to a study based on EPFO data, more than 70 lakh jobs were created in
the formal sector last year.
Now, you know that informal sector constitutes around 80 per
cent of all jobs. We also know that job creation in the formal sector can have
a spinoff effect on job creation in the informal sector too. If 41 lakh jobs
were generated in the formal sector in eight months, how much would be the
total formal plus informal sector jobs?
Swarajya: But experts still doubt
this way of measuring jobs…
Modi: India had around 66 lakh registered
enterprises from Independence till July last year. In just one year, 48 lakh
new enterprises got registered. Will this not result in more formalisation and
better jobs?
More than 12 crore loans have been given under Mudra (micro
loans). Is it unfair to expect that one loan would have created or supported
means of livelihood for at least one person?
More than one crore houses have been constructed in the last one
year; how much employment would this have generated? If road construction has
more than doubled per month, if there is tremendous growth in railways,
highways, airlines, etc, what does it indicate? Is it possible without
employing more people in equal proportions?
A recent international report showed how quickly poverty in
India is declining. Do you think that is possible without people having jobs?
Swarajya: But your opponents doubt
the data…
Modi: There is a lack of consistency in the
political debate around job creation. We have data put out by state governments
on employment. For example, the previous Karnataka government claimed to have
created 53 lakh jobs. The West Bengal government said it created 68 lakh jobs
in the last term. Now, if states are all creating good numbers of jobs, is it
possible that the country is not creating jobs? Is it possible that states are
creating jobs but the Centre is creating joblessness?
A Four-Pronged Strategy To Double Farmers’ Income
By 2022
Swarajya: Let us discuss farmers,
where there is a lot of anger… Every government routinely claims that it is
committed to the farmers. What is it that you are doing which is different from
the previous government?
Modi: We have a stated aim of doubling farmers’
income by 2022 to make our farmers prosperous and agriculture profitable.
To make our farmers prosperous, we need to augment their sources
of income and decrease the risks they face.
We are following a four-pronged strategy to achieve the goal of
doubling farmers’ income: decrease the input costs, ensure proper prices for
the produce, ensure minimal harvest and post-harvest losses, and create more
avenues for income generation. If you focus closely on our policy
interventions, they are aimed at helping farmers at every step – beej se bazaar tak.
The previous government allocated Rs 1.21 lakh crore to
agriculture while we have allocated Rs 2.12 lakh crore in the five-year period.
But unlike them, our initiatives do not stay limited to the files, but enter
the field.
Swarajya: Can you give examples..?
Modi: If you want an idea of what changed under
our government, just remember the condition of farmers during those years. They
were forced to do farming which was unscientific, they had to often bear the
brunt of lathis for obtaining urea, they did not have a proper crop insurance
cover, nor did they get proper prices for their produce.
To make farming scientific, farmers are now equipped with soil
health cards. Shortage and scarcity of urea is a thing of past and neem-coated
urea is improving productivity. Now the farmer has a holistic crop insurance
cover with PM Fasal Bima Yojana.
Swarajya: What about minimum support
prices?
Modi: Not only will the farmers get minimum
support price (MSP) of 1.5 times their cost, they also have more avenues to get
the right price with the help of e-NAM (the electronic National Agricultural
Market which provides price, production and market information to farmers).
I would also like to urge the private sector to increase
investment in agriculture. In India, private sector investment is only 1.75 per
cent of total investment in agriculture. From technology to food-processing and
from modern machinery to research, there is huge scope for the private sector.
If the market savviness and global best practices orientation of the private
sector meet the hardwork and determination of our farmers, it is a win-win for
both the farmers and the private sector.
Not Coy On Privatisation At All
Swarajya: You recently met leaders of
India Inc to discuss their issues. What did you tell them and what did they
tell you? Did they have grievances over goods and services tax (GST), the
insolvency process, etc?
Modi: The meeting with captains of industry was
extensive. The Government of India made a presentation. We had a frank
discussion on aspects relating to the Indian economy and the road ahead.
Several constructive suggestions emerged from the discussions.
The issues we discussed revolved around how the corporate sector
can further contribute to India’s growth. Take for example the agriculture
sector. I have said it in another question during this interview that corporate
involvement in agriculture is low in India. I feel this is an area where lots
should change.
We deliberated on the need for more Indian enterprises to get
involved in the defence sector. The Government of India has undertaken so many
reforms in this sector, including scope for more FDI, less bottlenecks, etc, so
the corporate world should now rise to the occasion and invest. So many years
after Independence why can’t India have enhanced capabilities in defence
manufacturing?
Business leaders said that what we are doing (reforms like GST
and bank loan resolution through bankruptcy courts) is removing the bad
elements in business and that is good for business.
Swarajya: Don’t you feel you could
have done better in two areas: fixing India’s banks. Instead of recapitalising
them in 2017-18, why didn’t you do this in 2014 itself? And then there is
half-hearted privatisation. The failure of the recent Air India privatisation
is a case in point…
Modi: You are wrong.
We had identified the problem with banks in 2014 itself. A
retreat of bankers was held in Pune where topmost officials attended. I told
them to go about their work with utmost professionalism and clean the sector. I
assured them that the long-standing culture of phone calls from Delhi
influencing their working is not the way our government works. This is what
enabled the true state of affairs to come out.
Earlier, if someone owed Rs 500 crore and when it was time to repay
that loan, a phone call from Delhi would ensure another loan of Rs 500 crore is
given so that the previous loan was repaid. This cycle persisted. We stopped
this. This is why the old loans had to be shown as NPAs.
Now (with the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code), many businessmen
have had to lose their companies for failing to pay bank dues.
Bank mergers were merely being talked about before, but not
implemented. But we have moved ahead. Did you not see the merger of five banks?
Swarajya: You don’t seem too keen on
privatisation… The case of the recent (failed) privatisation of Air India, for
example.
Modi: I request you to check your facts. Our
government has undertaken significant disinvestment. You can research more on
this and you will come to this conclusion too.
As for Air India, the government has done what it had to with
utmost sincerity. You have to differentiate between the lack of response to one
sale offer and a policy decision. At the cabinet level, we have cleared the
sale of not only Air India but several other (loss-making) public sector units
– this itself is a historical in many ways; that they are yet to be sold is the
result of timing and process. We don’t want to make a sale where we will be
accused of selling something for X amount when we could have got more. But the
policy decisions for strategic sales have already been taken.
Modi’s Version Of ‘Minimum
Government, Maximum Governance’
Swarajya: Before 2014, you talked of
minimum government, maximum governance? Can you expand on how you have moved
towards this goal? What exactly did you mean by this phrase?
Modi: I have always believed, and said it on
multiple occasions, that less dependence on governments is the way ahead.
A government needs to maximise productivity and optimise processes.
It has to play the role of an enabler and not an obstructer.
We have translated this philosophy into action over the last
four years. Technology plays an important role in achieving this aim.
The end objective of ‘minimum government, maximum governance’ is
to make the lives of people hassle-free, often by removing the hindrances a
government can create and to let people achieve their full potential.
Swarajya: Can you give us examples?
Modi: Take, for example, the move of making
self-attestation for submission of document copies. Earlier, people had to look
for notaries or gazetted officers and request them for attestation. Often, they
even ended up paying a Rs 50 or 100 for this. Now, we have shown that the
government trusts its people, we reduced a layer of government and it was a
relief to crores of people.
While many governments are proud of making new laws, I am proud
of abolishing archaic laws. More than a thousand archaic laws have been done
away with.
We also scrapped interviews for Class 3 and Class 4 jobs in the
government. One less layer of government, one less avenue for nepotism and
corruption, and a boost to honest candidates.
We abolished the Foreign Investment Promotion Board (FIPB) and
most of the FDI approvals happen through the automatic route.
Swarajya: What about ease of doing
business?
Modi: For ease of doing business, the earlier
mandatory 56 registers maintained under various labour laws have now been
replaced by five common registers and 36 forms have been reduced to 12. All the
existing labour laws are being simplified, rationalised and amalgamated into
four labour codes.
Processes for incorporating a company have been simplified and
it is now possible to get it done in 24 hours.
Building approval procedures from municipal authorities has been
reduced – from 24 to eight in Delhi and 37 to eight in Mumbai. The entire
process of application and approval at all stages of construction has been made
online and no personal visit or contact is necessary. Requirement of affidavit
has been done away with and replaced by e-undertaking. This is being extended
to all urban local bodies.
We have started a system of online application and approval for
environmental clearances which used to be stuck in delays earlier.
GST has been designed to eliminate Inspector Raj with the help
of information technology. From returns to refund, everything happens online.
On the Shram Suvidha portal, multiple labour compliances can be
logged at one place. Labour inspectors are also disallowed from swooping down
on companies, instead they are now guided by a computerised system that sends
them on inspections based on objective criteria.
In most government schemes, we have eliminated a layer of
government by making fund transfers through DBT (direct benefit transfer) or
cash transfers.
I can go on and on about such measures, but perhaps you will
have space constraints. So, let’s move to the next question.
Can We Have Milk And Mercedes At The Same Rate?
Swarajya: A year ago you launched the
GST claiming it as a good and simple tax. We believe it is certainly a good
tax, but is it really simple? Your critics say the tax should ideally have had
only one single rate with just a few items in an upper and lower merit slab.
Modi: It would have been very simple to have just
one slab but it would have meant we could not have food items at zero per cent
tax rates. Can we have milk and Mercedes at the same rates? So, when our
friends in Congress say that they will have just one GST rate, they are
effectively saying they will tax food items and commodities, which are
currently at zero or 5 per cent, at 18 per cent.
Swarajya: What are the benefits so
far, according to you?
Modi: Let me start with some numbers. The number
of enterprises registered from Independence until now was 66 lakh. In just one
year after the introduction of GST, the number of new enterprises registered is
48 lakh. Around 350 crore invoices were processed and 11 crore returns were
filed. Would we be looking at such numbers if GST were indeed very complex?
Check-posts across the country have been abolished and there are
no more queues at state borders. Not only are truck drivers saving precious
time but also the logistics sector is getting a boost and thereby increasing
the productivity of our country. Would this be happening if GST was complex?
Swarajya: Why do we still hear so
much criticism from business and economists?
Modi: GST was a massive change, requiring a
complete reset of one of the world’s largest economic systems. The reform
merged 17 taxes, 23 cesses into one single tax. When it was finally introduced,
it was our endeavour to make it simple and ensure sensitivity of the system.
There are often teething troubles seen when a reform of this magnitude is
carried out, but these issues were not only identified but also addressed in
real time.
Swarajya: GST is still a work in
progress even after one year...
Modi: GST is an evolving system and we
calibrate it based on feedback from state governments, people, media, etc. A
lot of feedback from the people, traders, etc. has been incorporated.
GST has seen Indian cooperative federalism at its best. We
consolidated the states and developed proactively a consensus where earlier
governments had failed.
Swarajya: Will we see rates
coming down further?
Modi: Talking about rates, earlier many
taxes were hidden. Now, what you see is what you pay. Government has reduced
taxes on nearly 400 groups of items. Around 150 groups of items have zero per
cent tax rate. If you look at the rates, for most of the day-to-day commodities
the rate has actually come down. Be it rice, wheat, sugar, spices, etc, total
tax levied has been reduced in in most cases. Large number of items of daily
usage are either exempted or in 5 per cent slab. Some 95 per cent items fall
in/below the 18 per cent slab.
Prime
Minister Narendra Modi with Swarajya’s Editorial Director R Jagannathan, CEO
Prasanna Viswanathan and Publisher Amar Govindarajan
Part 2:
POLITICS
- Jul 03, 2018, 11:42 am
Snapshot
·
Prime Minister Narendra Modi gave Swarajya an
exclusive interview, covering a wide range of subjects including political
challenges from a Mahagathbandhan against the NDA in 2019, the NDA’s own allies
problem, the Kashmir crisis, the alleged concentration of power in the Prime
Minister’s Office and the BJP’s talent deficit.
(If
you missed the first part of Swarajya’s interview with Prime Minister Narendra
Modi, read it here.)
In
an interview to Swarajya on 30 June, Prime Minister Narendra
Modi spoke his mind on the challenges faced by the National Democratic Alliance
(NDA) government when it took over from the United Progressive Alliance (UPA)
in 2014, its approach to economic reforms, especially the privatisation of
public sector units (PSUs), the efforts to put Indian banking back on the
rails, the political challenges from a Mahagathbandhan against the NDA in 2019,
the NDA’s own allies problem, the Kashmir crisis, the alleged concentration of
power in the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO) and the Bharatiya Janata Party’s
(BJP) talent deficit, and many other issues.
Here’s
the second and final part of the interview:
The
Grand Alliance Has No Agenda, Only Modi Removal
Swarajya: Let us move
from economics to politics. The countdown to 2019 has begun and there is a lot
of discussion of a Grand Alliance of the Opposition. Are you worried by the
formation of such an alliance, considering such alliances do tend to succeed in
the short-term, as shown in 1977 and 1989?
Modi: The BJP contests
elections on the issues of development and good governance.
On
various parameters – economics, security, social justice, foreign policy – our
government has done well. After 2014, time and again the people have blessed us
in all parts of India. The mandates we have received in state after state are
historic. Hence, we are confident that people will repose their trust in us.
As
for a Grand Alliance, the comparisons with 1977 and 1989 are flawed. In 1977,
the common motive of the alliance was to protect our democracy that was under
great threat due to the Emergency. In 1989, the record-breaking corruption of
Bofors had hurt the entire nation.
Today,
these alliances are not motivated by national good but they are about personal
survival and power politics. They have no agenda except to remove Modi.
Swarajya: The
opposition seems to be a step ahead of the BJP when it comes to coalition
politics.
Modi: The people of India
must know what the Congress thinks about coalition politics. In 1998, their
party met in Pachmarhi, where no less than the then Congress president Smt.
Sonia Gandhi referred to coalition politics as a ‘passing phase’ and the party
expressed its desire for a one-party rule.
From
the arrogance of Pachmarhi, the Congress is now running from pillar to post,
looking for allies. They are fighting a battle for their existence, what I call
an ‘astitva ki ladhai.’ This is due to the people of India, who have
rejected the high-handedness of the Congress.
Every
alliance needs a cementing factor or an anchoring party. Today, the Congress is
like a regional party. They are in power only in Punjab, Mizoram and
Puducherry. In Delhi, Andhra Pradesh and Sikkim they have no representation in
the Assembly. Their ‘strength’ in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar is also well known.
So, who is the cementing element for this alliance?
The
people of India also know how the Congress tends to treat allies. They are
known to betray and insult others, be it farmer leaders like Chaudhary Charan
Singh Ji and or H D Deve Gowda Ji , socialists like Chandra Shekhar Ji and even
V P Singh Ji when he was minister. For their selfish interests, Congress can
sacrifice anything.
Swarajya: But they seem
to be united right now in a grand alliance.
Modi: In the opposition,
there is no Grand Alliance, there is just a grand race to be prime minister.
Mr. Rahul Gandhi says he is ready to be prime minister but TMC does not agree.
Mamata Ji wants to be PM but the Left has a problem. SP thinks their leader
more than anyone else deserves to be PM. The whole focus is power politics, not
people’s progress.
Hatred
for Modi is the sole gluing force for the Opposition and it is not as if they
have not tried Grand Alliances in 2014 and in the ensuing state elections. The
results are for everyone to see.
How
long will the dislike and mistrust these parties and leaders have for each
other keep them together? They are in direct bitter contests against each other
in various states like West Bengal and Kerala. The last time these parties
formed a government in Uttar Pradesh (in 1993), it could not even last two
years. Such instability adversely impacts the growth trajectory of our nation.
Swarajya: But they
recently formed a government in Karnataka.
Modi: A trailer of what is
possibly in store can be seen in Karnataka. After a stolen mandate a government
was formed, but the bickering continues. You would expect ministers meeting
each other to solve development issues but in Karnataka they meet only to quell
infighting! Development has taken a back seat.
In
any election, a non-ideological and opportunist coalition is the best guarantee
for chaos.
The
next election will be a choice between governance and development on one side
and chaos on the other.
Swarajya: Opposition politics
will continue to evolve but when it comes to the NDA, things are not looking
good. In 2014, the BJP got a historic majority and the NDA got its best-ever
tally but the allies are not on the same page as the BJP. Is today’s NDA a
weaker NDA?
Modi: Your question is two
decades late! It seems as if you are living in the 90s, when an important
political question was, will Atal Ji get allies? Will other parties ever
support the BJP? In 1996, the BJP could not form the government but under two
years later, under Atal Ji’s leadership, an expanded NDA went on to serve India
for six years.
Today,
things are even better. The NDA is a large and happy family of over 20 parties.
It is leading strong coalitions in various states of India. Which other
alliance has such an impressive membership and is serving in so many states?
I
want to take you back to the run-up to the 2014 campaign when some people would
ask, “Can Modi get allies at all?” The fact was – that time we had an alliance
of over 20 parties!
Yes,
it is true that the mandate for BJP in 2014 was special. That time, we could
have easily formed the government on our own. But, we did not do so and instead
took our NDA allies along, made them a part of the government.
You
must understand how we in the BJP view the NDA. NDA is not our compulsion. It
is an article of faith. A large and diverse NDA is good for India’s democracy.
In
a country like ours, it is most important to respect regional aspirations. NDA
is committed to fulfilling these aspirations across the length and breadth of
India.
Swarajya: Coming to the BJP,
what is it doing to expand its social base? Some of your old base, like
traders, were unhappy with GST. You are often seen as a Hindi-belt party…
Modi:That the BJP has a
narrow social base is an old myth perpetuated by a select group of people. We
were said to be a Brahmin-Bania party; then it was said that we are an urban
party and that we are a north-based party. This is totally false.
Ours
is a party that draws support from all social groups. Our social base is very
wide. It is parties that are run by families that draw their strength only from
a few social groups.
In
fact, in 1984, when we won just two seats, one of those seats was from the
south and the other from the west (both non-Hindi speaking states).
Since
you asked me about the BJP and the party’s social base, you must study the
BJP’s performance in Gujarat. Continuously and consistently we have been
winning there. This time too we won with a vote share of 49 per cent. It is not
usual for one party to remain in power in a state for 27 years.
Swarajya: There is a view that
the BJP is weakening in the crucial state of Uttar Pradesh where you won a lot
of seats in 2014 and again in 2017 Assembly elections.
Modi: On this issue, you
will always find two sets of views: one, the hawa is very much
there. Two, the hawa is long over.
You
all are veteran observers of politics. I leave it to your wisdom, and develop
your opinion on the subject.
I
just have one anecdote to share. Before the 1998 Gujarat elections the BJP had
not done very well in some of the local elections across Gujarat. A lot of
people would ask me if we would manage to win in the Assembly polls. Initially,
I tried to explain the context and highlighted how the dynamics of a local
election differed from an Assembly election. But, eventually I made a small
folder containing details about the nature of the elections, our efforts there,
the larger picture, etc. Whoever asked me I gave them that folder and said, you
study this and then come to me.
When
the elections happened in 1998, the BJP formed the government in Gujarat with a
resounding two-thirds majority!
Swarajya: Speaking about
elections, do you see your idea of ‘One Nation, One Election’ materialising in
the near future? Why is no one supporting you on this?
Modi: First of all,
the issue of ‘One Nation, One Election’ is not Narendra Modi’s idea. This is an
issue that has been raised by several people, at different points of time.
Eminent statesmen like Shri Pranab Mukherjee and Shri L K Advani have spoken
about it. Recently, even Shri Naveen Patnaik has supported the idea.
In
fact, if you recall India’s history post-1947, the Lok Sabha and Vidhan Sabha
polls across states were held together, which means there is also precedence
for this to happen.
Do
you know that India does not have a common electoral roll…which means that
rolls differ for parliamentary and Assembly polls, and for local level
elections.
The
frequency of polls and the manner in which they are spread out means devoting
resources to keep updating it time and again, without any guarantee that this
roll will be used in the poll after the one for which updation was done in the
first place.
Voters
have to keep checking if their names are there on the list. A common electoral
roll and simultaneous polls will change this. Even the scope of errors and
omissions will come down significantly.
Swarajya: What are the
benefits of the idea?
Modi: As public servants,
our prime role is to ensure good governance and harness the aspirations of
those who have reposed faith in us. Due to elections not being held together,
there is a frequently recurring campaign period along with long model codes of
conduct, which lead to delays in development decisions.
The
entire exercise of electioneering involves lots of resources. Elections at
different points of time also mean a heavy burden on the exchequer.
Elections
require proper security measures to be put in place. Combined elections would
mean our personnel spend lesser time on poll duty and more time in their
respective states, focused on better policing and security.
It
is also my view that the electioneering cycle in the current form weakens the
federal structure. This is because the campaign trail that precedes an election
often takes an aggressive nature and the parties at the Centre and the states
are pitted against each other.
By
devoting a specific time for electioneering, the subsequent post-election
period becomes one of undivided attention to governance and development for all
elected governments across the nation.
Thus,
holding Lok Sabha and Vidhan Sabha polls together will involve lesser waste of
resources and enable a healthy culture of working together in the spirit of
cooperative federalism for the common pursuit of India’s progress.
I
do call upon media organisations such as yours, policy enthusiasts and
youngsters to talk about this subject as much as they can and also come up with
effective frameworks through which this idea can see the light of day.
Thoughts
On Maoist Threat, North-East Insurgency And Priorities In Jammu And Kashmir
Swarajya: Shall we move away
from politics to internal security? Is the government’s policies to mitigate
the threat of Maoism working?
Modi: Since you asked about
internal security, first and foremost I would like to salute our brave security
forces who are eternally vigilant and are ensuring peace as well as prosperity
for 125 crore Indians. You can ascertain our security situation from the fact
that recurrent terror attacks that were common under the UPA are now history.
The
numbers vis-a-vis Maoist violence in the last four years should make every
Indian happy. Maoist violence has declined by 20 per cent in the affected
states, with a concomitant reduction of 34 per cent in deaths in 2017 compared
to 2013.
Geographically
as well, the influence of Maoist violence has shrunk substantially.
Swarajya: But is it
just about security and force, or also development?
Modi: It is true that
Maoist violence had stalled the progress of many districts in central and
eastern India. That is why in 2015, our government formulated a comprehensive
‘National Policy and Action Plan’ to eradicate Maoist violence. Along with zero
tolerance towards violence, we have also focused on a massive push to
infrastructure and social empowerment to bring a positive change in the lives
of the poor people in these regions.
The
unparalleled development focus is reaping rich dividends.
About
4,500 kilometres of roads have already been built in 34 Maoist-affected
districts. Earlier, work at such speed and scale was not even imaginable!
About
2,400 mobile towers have been installed and an additional 4,072 towers have
been approved to enhance connectivity.
When
we assumed office, we got to know that there were no Kendriya Vidyalayas in 11
out of 35 districts most affected by Maoist violence. Eight new Kendriya
Vidyalayas and five new Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalayas are imparting quality
education to children.
These
are large residential schools, well equipped with trained teachers and
excellent infrastructure in terms of science, IT education and extracurricular
activities. Fifteen ITIs and 43 Skill Development Centres have been set up
across these places to fulfill the aspirations of the youth.
Maoist-affected
areas had limited access to banks. Between April 2015 and December 2017, about
430 new bank branches and 1,045 ATMs have been opened in 35 districts most
affected by Maoist violence.
I
have personally travelled to Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand and West Bengal on
numerous occasions. On 14 April (Ambedkar Jayanti) the first phase of Ayushman
Bharat (Rs 5 lakh of health insurance to each selected family) was rolled out
from Bastar, one of the most Maoist-affected districts in India.
Swarajya: Has the area
under Left Wing Extremism (LWE) really shrunk?
Modi: No area likes being
called an LWE-affected area. It adversely impacts the psyche of the local
population. Based on the changed ground realities, 44 out of 126 districts have
been removed from the list of LWE-affected areas. These are those districts
that did not see any violence for the last four years.
Due
to the government's policies, the push for development and zero tolerance for
any violence, about 3,380 Maoists surrendered from 2014 to 2017. From 2010 to
2013, the number stood around 1,380.
India,
the land of Mahatma Gandhi, Lord Buddha and Bhagwan Mahavir, has a rich history
of non-violence and brotherhood.
What
can solve people’s problems is not violence but development. And that is why,
our approach (while having no tolerance for any sort of violence and
disturbance) is to devote unparalleled resources towards the development of
areas prone to violence.
Swarajya: While we are talking
about security, we also want to bring up the question of your personal
security. Your well-wishers feel very nervous seeing you do these road shows,
and their number is only increasing now.
Modi: Whenever I am
travelling, I see that a lot of people, from all age groups and sections of
society, are out on the streets to greet me and welcome me.
I
can’t just remain seated in my car, aloof from their display of affection and
care. That is why I invariably get down and greet, interact with people as much
as I can.
I
am not a Shahenshah or an imperious ruler who is unaffected by their warmth.
Being among people gives me lot of strength.
Swarajya: The alliance in Jammu
and Kashmir did not work as you had imagined. Now that there is Governor’s rule,
what is the aim for the state.
Modi: In Kashmir, our
goal is good governance, development, responsibility and accountability.
Swarajya: Will there be
dialogue with stakeholders?
Modi: We have appointed an
interlocuter, and he is in touch with many people. He is travelling to the
interiors and engaging with people.
Swarajya: Politically, the BJP
has expanded its footprint in the North East, but is the security situation
better now?
Modi: The security situation
in the North East has improved tremendously. In 2017, we had the lowest
insurgency-related incidents and casualties among civilians and security forces
in the last 20 years!
Tripura
and Mizoram are virtually free from insurgency. In Meghalaya, the Armed Forces
(Special Powers) Act has been removed from all areas from 31 March 2018 and in
Arunachal Pradesh it is remaining only in eight police stations.
We
are leaving no stone unturned to protect our sisters and brothers of the North
East. Police infrastructure is being strengthened across the region. Wherever
needed, additional India Reserve Battalions are being raised.
It
is extremely anguishing when misguided youngsters are drawn to violence. We
want to bring these youngsters back to the mainstream, so that they can
contribute to the development of India. In the North East, there is the
surrender-cum-rehabilitation policy. We revised the policy in April 2018 so
that more youngsters who turned to militancy come back to the mainstream.
Like
I explained in the context of Maoist violence, the emphasis on development is
reaping rich dividends.
The
ministry dealing with the North East is fully immersed in facilitating the
all-round growth of the region. In fact, a system is in place which ensures
that every 15 days a minister or a senior official visits the North East. I
have made about 30 trips to the region myself.
Swarajya: The North
East is also getting better connected to the rest of India…
Modi: Connectivity gives a
big boost to the development of a region. It was our government that had the
honour of putting Tripura, Mizoram and Meghalaya on the railway map of India.
Furthermore,
Meghalaya, Arunachal Pradesh, Manipur, Mizoram and Tripura are also on
broad-gauge map of the country.
A
few weeks ago, the first commercial flight in three decades reached Arunachal
Pradesh. The road network is being expanded and waterways are being harnessed.
The
Centre is devoting resources to harness the potential of the North East in
organic farming. Sikkim has done very well in this sector and the other states
are also tapping the rich potential in this sector.
An
improved security situation combined with a push for development is convincing
people about the perils of violence and instability. It is also fulfilling the
aspirations of the youth of the state.
The
Catalytic Role Of PMO, Government’s ‘Talent-Deficit’ And Congress’s ‘Emergency
Culture’
Swarajya: Let’s talk
about the government. It is said that this is the most powerful PMO in recent
years? Concentration of powers in the hands of one office does not augur well
for our nation.
Modi: The answer to your
question lies within your question itself. If the benchmark of comparison of
the present PMO is with the previous PMO, then I don’t think anyone will be
surprised to find it more decisive and powerful. Everyone knows how things ran
under the UPA government. The PMO was reduced to a game of politics instead of
being the driver of good governance. And whenever politics takes centre stage,
governance takes a back seat.
Under
this NDA government, there is no such confusion or misplaced priorities. Each
institution and at every level of governance is enabled and empowered to do
what it is meant to do. The PMO also faithfully and effectively carries out its
responsibility of providing the necessary clarity, decisiveness and
facilitation that is needed for the government to deliver its commitment of
good governance and development.
Swarajya: This is too
generic an explanation…
Modi: To go beyond mere
generalities, one should understand the underlying structure of our government
system. The roles and responsibilities of each office are clearly laid out in
the allocation of business rules. The PMO’s mandate is to offer secretarial
assistance to the Prime Minister. Ministries drive the governance agenda in
their respective domains and verticals, while horizontal offices like the NITI
Aayog, Cabinet Secretariat and PMO may provide the cross-sectoral, longer-term,
bigger-picture perspective.
Therefore,
functioning as a catalytic agent, the PMO facilitates, coordinates and converges
the agenda and priorities of the various members of ‘Team India’ – a team
comprising not just of our central ministries, but encompassing each and every
state government. Take the example of our Pragati initiative, wherein using
technology we bring onto the same platform every month, all central ministries,
state governments and even district administrations, to solve problems and
debottleneck long-standing issues and challenges, at times even dating back
decades. Would you call this centralisation and interference, or decisive
intervention that activates and enables?
Let
me give you another example of healthcare. Today, India is witnessing a
transformation in the sector. India’s strides are being powered by the stellar
teamwork of the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare, Ministry of Women and
Child Development, Ministry of Chemicals and Fertilisers, Ministry of Ayush,
Ministry of Drinking Water and Sanitation. The PMO provides assistance in
coordinating and bringing together so many different ministries and
departments. From silos created due to isolated working, we are working towards
solutions due to integration.
On
the whole, the erstwhile regime, running on the whims and fancies of select
‘powerful’ individuals, has been decisively replaced by an institutionalised
and democratic governance process, functioning by the letter and spirit as laid
down by our farsighted forefathers in our Constitution.
In
this PMO, the 125 crore people are our ‘high command’.
Swarajya: There seems
to be a talent-deficit in your ministry…Some ministers don’t seem to be doing
well…
Modi: This is an incorrect
perception. Just because only a few ministers and ministries make it to the
front pages or prime-time debates, they are deemed as talented and others are
deemed the opposite. The conventional mindset is also to bracket ministries and
make presumptions about their value.
However,
the work culture of this government is different. I would like to illustrate my
point with a few examples.
Let
us talk about rural housing. This is not a sector that is connected to cities
or the digital world.
In
the last four years, more than one crore houses have been built in rural areas.
This is a big number. Crores of Indians who did not have a shelter over their
head now have their own homes.
Just
to give you an indication of the extent of work done by the team working on
rural housing, the UPA, in their last four years, from 2010 to 2014, built 25
lakh houses. This is one-fourth of what the NDA government has built. This is
the work done by someone many in the media will call ‘non-talented.’
I
would like to give you another example – of the Ministry of Social Justice and
Empowerment.
Conventional
wisdom suggests that this ministry is not “glamorous” and hence it does not
make as much news as it should, but let me give you a glimpse of the
exceptional work this department has done.
This
year, the budget allocation for the welfare of SC and ST communities stood at
Rs 95,000 crore and there was a whopping 41 per cent rise in the budget for the
welfare of OBCs.
It
was under this ‘non-talented minister’ that our government had the honour of
bringing the strongest amendments in the SC/ST Act.
The
government of India is developing the five notable places associated with Dr
Babasaheb Ambedkar as ‘Panchteerth’. In two cases, the Mahaparinirvan Bhumi at
26, Alipur Road in Delhi, and the Dr Ambedkar International Centre at 15,
Janpath, I had the honour of both laying their foundation stone and
inaugurating these buildings.
The
Rights of Persons with Disabilities Act, 2016, raised the types of disabilities
from seven to 21. For the first time, victims of acid attacks have been
included in the list. The Act includes provisions for right to free education
for Divyang children from the ages of six to 18.
Reservation
for persons with disabilities for government jobs has been raised from 3 per
cent to 4 per cent. This will bring several more opportunities for our Divyang
sisters and brothers.
In
the last four years, the Ministry has hosted over 7,200 camps due to which 11
lakh persons with disabilities benefited.
Substantial
progress has been made under the Sugamya Bharat Abhiyan in ensuring dignity and
equal opportunity for persons with disabilities. Due to these proactive
efforts, the pace of making government buildings accessible is unparalleled.
Similarly, all 34 international and 48 domestic airports are accessible and so
are 644 out of 709 A1, A and B category railway stations.
All
these works have happened due to the active role of the ministry, both in terms
of ideation and coordinating with other departments.
In
this interview itself I have spoken at length about the strides in
agriculture…under a ‘non-talented’ minister, the department has undertaken
futuristic initiatives such as soil health cards and the Pradhan Mantri Fasal
Bima Yojana that are helping crores of farmers.
These
are just three examples I have given…I am proud of all my colleagues and their
work.
Swarajya: There are
some extreme views gaining ground that freedom of expression and sanctity of
institutions are shrinking under the BJP. How do you respond to this?
Modi: You yourself have used
the right word for such views – extreme!
Recently,
the nation observed the 43rd anniversary of the Emergency. It was an attack on
freedom of press, freedom of expression, sanctity of institutions and democracy
itself. Many of our senior leaders bore the brunt of the Emergency because they
stood up to fight for these rights.
In
fact, some of our leaders, including sitting Cabinet ministers, ministers in various
states, went to jail during the Emergency and withstood lathis.
This shows how much we cherish democratic values and freedom. Hence, I find
such a discourse about damage to institutions under the BJP absurd and
incorrect. That is not our value system at all.
In
fact, if you look at India’s history since 1947, it is the Indian National
Congress that has subverted our democracy, judiciary and media, time and again.
As
early as 1959, which is less than a decade after we became a Republic, the
Nehru government dismissed a democratically-elected communist government in
Kerala. A detailed study of the number of times Congress governments imposed
Article 356 will present a chilling picture of how they held our democracy to
ransom. Mrs Indira Gandhi herself imposed Article 356 over 50 times and that
too on flimsy grounds. If one family did not like a particular state
government, all resources were devoted to get it dismissed or toppled.
Swarajya: But that era is over…
Modi: The Congress party’s
culture is the culture of the Emergency – arguably the darkest period after
1947. The media, courts, arms of the government were held hostage to power
politics and an anti-democratic mindset.
Look
at the events in the last seven to eight years as well. The Congress went on an
overdrive to discredit every possible institution. From Modi hatred, they have
graduated to India hatred.
The
Congress also has different tricks for the time when they are in power and when
they are in Opposition, but even then, disrespect for institutions is visible.
In power, their leaders victimised an Army Chief and the CAG just because they
did not toe the Congress line.
In
Opposition, they mocked the Indian Army for the Surgical Strikes, they find
fault with our other security forces. Now they also attack reputed rating
agencies that are optimistic about India, they discredit the RBI…now they are
after the courts.
Their
onslaught on the election process of India is alarming. They did not find EVMs
faulty when they won in 2009 or in various states. Instead of introspecting
why, in state after state, people are rejecting them, the Congress is finding
fault in the poll process. What can one say to such a thought process?
As
for the media, I have time and again said that constructive criticism by the
media strengthens our democracy and more constructive criticism is welcome. The
advent of social media has in fact made our discourse a lot more democratic.
Earlier, while only a handful of self-appointed experts were seen speaking
about issues, now all it takes is a tweet or Facebook post by a common citizen
of India to express himself or herself. This is the power of social media.
Our
institutions and our democracy are vibrant as always. India’s democratic ethos
can’t be trampled over.
Swarajya: From internal
affairs, let us discuss foreign policy. That you have developed a personal
chemistry with leading world leaders is well known but has that chemistry
resulted in tangible gains to India’s foreign policy?
Modi: The foreign policy of
the NDA government has been about unprecedented outreach with unparalleled
outcomes. India has engaged with the world, not only to further the interests
of 125 crore Indians but also to make our world a better place for our future
generations.
As
for my visits overseas, one thing that I sense everywhere is the fact that
India is seen as a bright spot in the world.
To
understand the kind of interest India now attracts from the world, look at the
number of foreign tourists coming to India. In 2017, for the first time ever, India
registered over 10 million foreign tourist arrivals. This is about 33 per cent
higher than 2014, and a record high in its own right.
Look
at our FDI inflows. The cumulative FDI equity inflows into India stood at about
$ 222 billion in May 2014. By the end of 2017, this had grown to about $ 368
billion – an increase of over 65 per cent. FDI inflows to India are also at a
record high. From ‘Make in India’ to ‘Smart Cities’, from ‘Clean Ganga’ to
‘Clean India’, and from ‘Digital India’ to ‘Start-up India’, we have forged
unprecedented partnerships across the world.
There
are critical areas such as technology, skill development, agriculture where we
have picked up several best practices from all over the world. Several
countries are partnering cities across India and helping them in their quest
towards becoming ‘Smart Cities’.
Today,
India is a member of the Missile Technology Control Regime, Australia Group and
Wassenaar Arrangement. These are organisations of great importance to the
world, with tangible impacts, and India has a voice at them for the first time.
Four years ago, this was not the case. Infact, India was trying to join these
bodies for years.
You
can also see the kind of attention world pays to India’s views. India’s
proposal at the UN to declare 21 June as International Day of Yoga received
unanimous approval in a record time. The proposal to create an International
Solar Alliance has become a reality through a new global treaty-based
organisation.
India’s
push for combating black money and terrorism has found tremendous resonance in
G-20. We have also succeeded in becoming a full member of the Shanghai
Cooperation Organisation. From BRICS to Commonwealth to East Asia Summit,
India’s voice now matters like it hasn’t before.
This
year itself, I attended two informal summits, in China and Russia. These gave
me an opportunity to talk at length about regional and global issues with
President Xi Jinping and President Vladimir Putin. These summits are adding
great strength to our friendship with China and Russia.
India
stands ready to help every citizen of the world in times of need. This is seen
when Nepal faces an earthquake, when there is water shortage in the Maldives or
when people are stranded in West Asia. We do not see the nationality of the person
affected but we go out of the way to help fellow humans. We have been able to
rescue over 90,000 Indians in distress to safety from across the world.
At
the same time, my government has not allowed the start or completion of our
development cooperation projects to be delayed waiting for any VVIP visits.
That was the general tendency. But I have myself used video conferencing to
inaugurate projects, to lay foundation stones, and sometimes even just to
address audiences abroad, whether belonging to the overseas Indian community or
foreign businessmen and investors interested in India.
Another
area that many would find interesting is the return of artifacts. In 2016, at a
special ceremony in Washington DC’s Blair House, US returned 200 historic
artifacts. During one of her visits to India, Chancellor Angela Merkel got back
a 10th century Durga idol. Australia has returned valuable artifacts as well.
It is my constant endeavour to ensure these important traces of our history
make their way back to India and more Indians can see them in order to
understand their culture better.
Thus,
you can see that be it trade, technology, skills training, fighting against
terrorism, there have been substantial gains for India’s foreign policy in the
last four years.
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